On The Ball

Interview with Mickey Ned O'Sullivan

January 10th, 2010
by Eamonn Fitzgerald

Mickey Ned was a brilliant Kerry minor at number 6. He captained the  Kerry seniors in 1975 when Mick O Dwyer heralded the golden years of Kerry football. O Sullivan won 3 All Irelands and took over as the Kerry senior manager in 1989 when O Dwyer stepped down. He managed Kerry for 3 years and has recently retired as boss of the Limerick football team after a 5 year stint. A P.E. teacher in Coláiste Ghobnatan in Ballyvourney, he is a great advocate of refining and embellishing the skills of Gaelic football. Married to Marian, he has two grown up sons, Éamonn and Bryan.
 
 
On the Ball. (OTB). I first saw you play in at centre back Croke Park with the Kerry minor team in an All Ireland semi-final marking a well known current star.
 
Mickey Ned (MN) I was marking Martin O Neill that day and he missed a penalty for Derry. We won. He went on to carve out a great career cross channel. I have kept in contact with him and have visited him in Glasgow.
 
OTB..You are best known as Mickey Ned. Where does the Ned come from?
 
MN..Quite simple really. My father's name was Ned and we are known in Kenmare as 'the Neds'. The O Sullivan surname is very common in this area, so to distinguish families with this surname an other family name is tagged on.
 
OTB..What were the factors that influenced you to retire recently after 5 years in charge of the Limerick footballers?
 
MN..After managing this group of players for 5 years I felt I had carried them as far as I could. Every team needs freshness and a new voice. This was a joint decision taken in conjunction with the other people who worked with me, not only the loyal selectors, but the rest of our management team.
Ray Egan, the Munster rugby trainer got the most out of our lads. Then we were fortunate to have ex Desmond's man, Donie Buckley and Maurice Horan, excellent coaches. Limerick is a sports mad county, particularly in rugby and in hurling. We did win the league this year, but once again came so close to getting over the line against the top two neighbouring teams, Kerry and Cork. A manager needs to have all players available all year round to reach this level so that they would beat Cork and Kerry.
 
OTB..So, what did you have to do as manager with such a great back-up team in Limerick?
 
MN..I saw my role as a facilitator, so that all could work in unison for Limerick football. I devised all the drills and training systems for the trainer and coach and then oversaw that operation, even though they delivered it. I kept every player on my group phone text so that everyone of them had a direct line to me.  I expected every player to be at every training session/meeting. If they were unable to attend they had to give me very good reasons beforehand. The players and I agreed to this system at the start; non attendance of a player put pressure on him to contact me. The players came up with suitable punishment for non attendance, so the transgressor was letting his team down and they were hard task masters. All this was agreed before we started the season. It was as transparent as that.
I see the manager with the crucial role of a liaison person, facilitating and empowering all those involved with the team so that every one gives of his best for the common good.
The manager has to have access to the best people in the preparation of a team. In my phone are the numbers of the best orthopaedic surgeons in the country, also Marc Van Drompt once the chief medical man with the Dutch soccer team and now lecturing in UL. Then there is Ray Moran, who runs the most up to date sports clinic in Santry.
When I am aware of a player's injury I call in the medical doctor and/or physio. I monitor the injured player's recovery and when it comes to assessing fitness for team selection, the medical people make the call, not me. I am not a medical person. They declare a player fit or otherwise to be considered for selection.          
 
OTB..Living in Kenmare, teaching in Ballyvourney and managing the Limerick team, what were the time demands on you in a typical week?
 
MN..Huge time demands. We usually trained 3 times a week. I left home in Kenmare at 7.30 am and rarely got back home again before 1.30 am, all of 18 hours later. I teach in Coláiste Ghobnatan in Ballyvourney and also in Ballingeary. Finishing there at 4 pm, it took one and a half to two hours drive to the training ground in Limerick. We had no fixed training ground and had to use which ever club grounds that were available on any particular night. My target was to be first to the training ground a full 90 minutes before the players. That gave me the time to see that all the arrangements were in place. Invariable I had meetings at this time, with selectors, coach/trainer, county board officers, individual players, grounds man, and the persons in charge of the catering. It wasn't much satisfaction for the players who had come to training from their work place, not having eaten since the middle of the day to find that a meal was not ready for them at the end of the session. That cannot be allowed to happen, so I made sure of that by liaising with the chef.
 
OTB..What are the main sources of pressure and stress on an intercounty managers?
 
MN..Results. It is a results driven assignment; that's the bottom line. The results count for all. Managing people can be a source of stress. Most players work out well, but how do you manage the feelings of the 6 players at the end of the panel, who will never get a game. They go through all the same training routine and they will never get a game. They get fed up being on the bench. I would much prefer to see the inter-county panel cut back to 24. Then subs would have a realistic chance of coming on in a game. As it is, apathy sets in with these fellows and that can be hard to manage. After all  players want to play, but some never will get any time on the county side.
 
OTB..The GAA is starting a campaign once again to stop payment of managers, both at county and at club level. When Peter Quinn, then President of the GAA tried to do something about it many years ago, he said that not alone could they not find under the table payments, they could not even find the table.
 
MN..There is a big myth out there about the supposedly vast sums of money that inter-county managers are supposed to get. Of course I get full travel expenses and that may seem large since my home base is a long ways from the Limerick training grounds. Legitimate travel expenses, yes, but that's it. Remember Limerick football is not financed by JP (McManus)
 
OTB..Would it be heresy to bring in an outsider to manage the Kerry football team?

MN..They say that a prophet is never acknowledged in his own land and there is some truth in that. It holds true in all counties. If there isn't a suitably high quality manager available within the county then people should look outside. It may be seen as heresy in Kerry and the county has so much expertise within itself that realistically you don't expect an outsider to manage Kerry. Same goes for Kilkenny hurlers, but it is different for Kerry hurling. No problem about John Meyler coming in. Kilkenny footballers may also look outside without causing any flutters, but no outsider will follow Brian Cody.
 
OTB..After brilliant displays against Kerry and Cork on several occasions, why is it that Limerick cannot get over the finishing line?
 
MN..Tradition means a lot and until Limerick gets total all year round commitment from the entire football panel, they will not reach the standard required to unseat Kerry and Cork.
 
OTB..I know you rate John Galvin very highly. How Kerry could do with him, as they set about restructuring midfield after the retirement of Darragh O Se.
 
MN..Yes, I rate him very highly as a player and as a person, the type of player any county would love to have at midfield, Kerry included. He has a fine physique for football and for the basketball that he also plays at National league level. He has the mental toughness that any leader needs and he is a powerful leader on and off the field. Never once did I have a discipline issue with him; an exemplary player for any manager to have.

OTB..You were one of Kerry's young star players in 1975 along with Pat Spillane, Mick Spillane,Ogie Moran, Jimmy Deenihan, John O Keeffe ,all  six of you PE student teachers at the time, learning the most up to date developments in training sports people. Yet, Mick O 'Dwyer was of the old stock, settling for numerous rounds of the field, wire to wire sprints in the Fitzgerald Stadium ( need I remind you ) and backs & forwards. Did you feel like rebelling against this old fashioned regime?
 
MN..I actually made out the first training schedule for Mick O Dwyer and that is still the basis of what he has done in every county where he has been in charge. It works for him and the results tell all. He earns great respect wherever he goes and he is proven winner

OTB..What does Dwyer have that makes him such a successful manager with any team he takes on?
 
MN..He has been a great player with club and county. He is an outstanding manager of people and that was not something he learned out of books. That is innate in the man; he doesn't have to work on it, pure natural genius in this factor of inter-county management. He understands the difference between the spirit of the law and the letter of the law. In a team game he still respects individuality.
 
OTB..Don't throw the book at someone, if a page will do
 
MN..Exactly. He managed players as a team, but he was shrewd enough to realise at times that some of his players were playing below par. There was a reason and he found it. Domestic worries, unemployment, unable to keep up with to the pace of college life and other reasons. O Dwyer understood and adjusted temporarily for the lack of form. What a psychologist.
 
OTB..Is the current game better or worse than when you played?
 
MN..It's a better game now, far more skilful and played at a much quicker pace. The preparation of teams, at club and inter-county levels is much better. The type of training is far more enjoyable for the players. Simulated mini games incorporating the particular skill or movement is great. Players will work a lot harder if ball practice is used, as often as possible. I do admit that the great skill of high fielding and clean catching is lost too often in our present game; hence the small number of times in big inter-county games a midfielder makes a splendid catch to the delight of the spectators. However, when he comes down, invariably he is bottled up and will not be allowed to move on the next phase of play. He will be dispossessed.
That much said though managers must be able to combat new styles of play. We heard a lot about the 'swarming tactics' introduced by the Northern teams. A manager would be very naive to think that pure football in itself will beat any kind of tactics.
15 Limerick players put out against 15 Kerry players and all playing pure football would only have one result. I would never coach any player to engage in foul and illegal tactics to spoil his opponent. However, if you were playing the Kerry forward line you would have to sacrifice one, if not more, of your forwards to defensive roles. In the ensuing crowded area even top class forwards are less likely to score. Imagine giving Gooch some space…he'd destroy you every time. He is that good.
 
OTB..You have some strong views on the standard of refereeing both at inter county and at county level.
 
MN..It is not the referee per se that I am blaming. Maybe it's their training, or the inadequacy of it. Yes, I got frustrated on some occasions on the interpretation of a rule during a match. When that one ruling by the ref turns the result of a big game, you can understand the frustrations of the manager and the players who have sweated at training all year and this decision goes against the. Rules ar much cleared in rugby. for example. There is a defined tackle, which is lacking in Gaelic football. All you can do with a player approaching you in full flight is shadow him and hope to block down his kick or pass as he off loads.
 
OTB..After the high profile travesties of injustices this summer, what do you feel should be done? Are you in favour of technology such as that used in rugby?
 
MN..Yes, especially in the light of a few very high profile games this year. Of course Louth would be Leinster champions, if the referee had the benefit of technology from the stand, as they have in rugby. However, it should only be used on very rare occasions in big games and it should not slow down our fast game into a game of fits and starts.. You would not have this technology at the regular club games of course.
 
 
OTB..Kerry has a poor record in recent decades in minor/Under 21 intercounty football. Any suggestions on how to improve that?
 
MN..I can't put my finger on it. We have had very good committed managers, but that still does not do. The top football colleges in Kerry have been well able to compete against their corresponding colleges in the country. The raw material must be there, only how to harness it.
 
OTB..How long do you think Sam Maguire will be away from its Kerry Kingdom home?
 
MN..Not too long, I hope. We still have 4 of the best forwards in the country with a lot of football left in them. The challenge now is to build an other great team around them. It will take some time, but I don't expect to see Kerry  off the winning rostrum for too long.
 
OTB..Drawing on your expertise as a PE teacher, player and manager, talk to me about the pre-match ritual warm up, so common in teams at county and at club level. If players in our time did that much activity they certainly would not be fit enough to last the full match.
 
MN..It's a different regime in the modern game. There are good reasons to get players in to the correct mental and physical mode before a game.  There is far less need to do anything like this in the dressing room when it can be done on the field. There is a lot of stretching and running preparing players for the high intensity game that we have today. Did you notice in particular the high energy intensity of the Tipp hurlers before they faced Kilkenny? Managers will simulate this high intensity by running a fast moving exercise of hand passing in a small grid.
 
OTB..It reminds me more like preparation for war. Does it drum up the ante too much?
 
MN..Many teams do up to 25 minutes and then return to the dressing room before they re-appear for the match proper. I take charge of this my self; it lasts for 15 minutes and we do not return to the dressing room before the match begins. You bring your team up to a physical and mental pitch of realisation for the match. You do that once. I feel that much of the momentum can be lost by going back in to the dressing room.
 
OTB..I realise the need for a team to do some cooling down exercises after the match, but I have observed that invariably it is the winners who do this. Why not the losers, who have played just as hard. ?
 
MN..They have to deal with disappointment …in a far less public place. All they want to do is get off the field.
 
OTB..Have you met Sean O Doherty since 1975?
Yes, I have many times. In fact we meet every year in Dorset Street on the eve of the All Ireland. What happened in the '75 final is over and done with; the game was far more physical then and you have to judge things in the context of the times. Of course, I didn't get the result of the 75 match until I came out of concussion about 9.30 pm that night.
 
OTB..If you were asked to manage an other inter-county team now would you take up the offer?
 
MN..Yes, I would. However my geographical location in the south-western tip of Ireland would only make it realistically feasible for operating in counties adjacent to Kerry.
 
OTB..Slán tamaillín, Mickey Ned



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